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How should we handle disabled achievements?

AuthorMessage
KuWanTum
554,396
KuWanTum
Posted on 23 February 16 at 02:15
alphabet said:Nomstuff said:They should be removed entirely, if it's not in the game, it's not on the site.This.
There's no reason to keep them here if they aren't even on Steam.
Should games no longer on sale be removed as well?

It makes no sense to ditch things just because people can no longer get them.
Nomstuff
487,674
Nomstuff
Posted on 23 February 16 at 02:44
KuWanTum said:alphabet said:Nomstuff said:They should be removed entirely, if it's not in the game, it's not on the site.This.
There's no reason to keep them here if they aren't even on Steam.
Should games no longer on sale be removed as well?

It makes no sense to ditch things just because people can no longer get them.
Delisted games are not the same as deleted achievements.

You can still acquire delisted games, as far as I know, every delisted game bar one or two are still purchasable somewhere, the game is still playable, the achievements still function or exist.

Even in the handful of cases where the achievements are now all discontinued, and the game gone forever, they still exist on your steam account.

The deleted achievements do not.
alphabet
947,115
alphabet
Posted on 23 February 16 at 05:13
KuWanTum said:alphabet said:Nomstuff said:They should be removed entirely, if it's not in the game, it's not on the site.This.
There's no reason to keep them here if they aren't even on Steam.
Should games no longer on sale be removed as well?

It makes no sense to ditch things just because people can no longer get them.
No, because their achievements still exist on Steam's servers. People who bought the game previously still have access to the game, and therefore the achievements. Deleted achievements simply do not exist anymore. I'd like to think this site should reflect what's currently available on Steam's servers. Whether people have achieved them previously or whether they never worked in the first place is irrelevant.

In your scenario (games removed from sale), those achievements can be flagged as discontinued and be worth zero points on the leaderboard (but still add to the achievement count) - creating an even playing field for new and old users. But this is a separate issue.

There's no reason why the achievement count on the Steam profile should be different to the count here (barring the weird cases on Steam's side with free weekends and whatnot).
KuWanTum
554,396
KuWanTum
Posted on 23 February 16 at 06:12
alphabet said:KuWanTum said:alphabet said:Nomstuff said:They should be removed entirely, if it's not in the game, it's not on the site.This.
There's no reason to keep them here if they aren't even on Steam.
Should games no longer on sale be removed as well?

It makes no sense to ditch things just because people can no longer get them.
No, because their achievements still exist on Steam's servers. People who bought the game previously still have access to the game, and therefore the achievements. Deleted achievements simply do not exist anymore. I'd like to think this site should reflect what's currently available on Steam's servers. Whether people have achieved them previously or whether they never worked in the first place is irrelevant.

In your scenario (games removed from sale), those achievements can be flagged as discontinued and be worth zero points on the leaderboard (but still add to the achievement count) - creating an even playing field for new and old users. But this is a separate issue.

There's no reason why the achievement count on the Steam profile should be different to the count here (barring the weird cases on Steam's side with free weekends and whatnot).
Oh, maybe I misunderstood the topic - I thought it meant about achievements which are not obtaining now because of Gamespy etc.

This is for when a developer actually deletes the achievements completely?
RedDwarf
16,754
RedDwarf
Posted on 23 February 16 at 10:38
KuWanTum said:we could shift discontinued achievements and list them as a kind of DLC so that people can still complete a base game.I like this idea a lot.
Nomstuff
487,674
Nomstuff
Posted on 23 February 16 at 13:16
KuWanTum said:
*** Spoiler - click to reveal ***


This is for when a developer actually deletes the achievements completely?
yes.
Kapi96
30,347
Kapi96
Posted on 23 February 16 at 14:28
If they don't show up on Steam I don't think they should here. The information viewable here should essentially be the same as if it were viewed on Steam, albeit much better formatted of course.
Moon
170,180
Moon
Posted on 23 February 16 at 15:02
To my mind it's whichever doesn't penalise the player...

If you keep them in, it penalises all the new achievers who will now never be able to get a 100% (one of the things I do strive for so that would bug me like mad)

However...if I had legitimately won the achievement I would be irritated if it was taken away. However with the number of achievements that people can accumulate easily a few going missing probably wouldn't be missed, so I would lean towards removing them.

IF POSSIBLE...it would be great to have an 'archive' section, so maybe they don't count towards a points total but players can at least show that they have it, sort of the best of both worlds.

Just my tuppence worth.
Shinnizle
187,528
Shinnizle
Posted on 23 February 16 at 15:56
To me, it should reflect whatever is on Steam. Working or not. If the achievement is on Steam, it should be on here. If it is removed from there, it's removed from here as well.
Broke is a state of wallet. Poverty is a state of mind.
IrethTassartir
Posted on 23 February 16 at 21:18
if they were unobtainable they shouldn't appear in list. but if someone has them, they should stay at those profiles. but not on other profiles. if than can be done at all.
ShinUkyo
5,486
ShinUkyo
Posted on 25 February 16 at 07:55
It would be nice if they (deleted achievements) could be sorted like "challenges" are on Xbox One. Where you can view them within a game's pages, but they don't count towards your achievements/completion/etc. There is no question they should not affect the completion of a game when they have, for all intents, been ret-conned.
Hahaman
34,647
Hahaman
Posted on 25 February 16 at 11:52
nope the achs should be kept... it will be unfair to those who already unlocked them
Veilor
63,639
Veilor
Posted on 25 February 16 at 14:15, Edited on 25 February 16 at 14:17 by Veilor
ShinUkyo said:It would be nice if they (deleted achievements) could be sorted like "challenges" are on Xbox One. Where you can view them within a game's pages, but they don't count towards your achievements/completion/etc. There is no question they should not affect the completion of a game when they have, for all intents, been ret-conned.I like this idea, if we are to treat EVERY deleted achievement(even ones people could obtain for a while) in the future with what is voted today this in my opinion would atleast show that they some time unlocked them before deletion.
Shinnizle
187,528
Shinnizle
Posted on 25 February 16 at 16:32, Edited on 25 February 16 at 16:32 by Shinnizle
Hahaman said:nope the achs should be kept... it will be unfair to those who already unlocked themBut they aren't kept on Steam, so you essentially lose them on Steam... why should it be any different on here?
Broke is a state of wallet. Poverty is a state of mind.
Inaithnir
10,327
Inaithnir
Posted on 25 February 16 at 17:25
I'm in the camp of putting them in their own 'DLC' section (call it removed, whatever), let them be worth 0 points and just there for showcase.
Reborn
30,364
Reborn
Posted on 25 February 16 at 19:21
ShinUkyo said:It would be nice if they (deleted achievements) could be sorted like "challenges" are on Xbox One. Where you can view them within a game's pages, but they don't count towards your achievements/completion/etc. There is no question they should not affect the completion of a game when they have, for all intents, been ret-conned.I actually agree with this. They wouldn't have any numerical value or count towards anything, but could still be displayed as a rare sort of "discontinued" item. A piece of history, cosmetic achievement, whatever you would want to call it.
Moderator here on TSA | Walkthrough Supervisor and Site Help Editor on TA
SwAlL
546,895
SwAlL
Posted on 26 February 16 at 20:58
I would vote for

" The achievements were removed for a reason, but if it was after people earned them they shouldn't be removed "

But: for example in the game Age of Empires 2 HD Edition, I've unlocked 26 removed achievements and the site seems unable to track those for me.

Since (probably) not always the site will be able to track removed achievements, maybe is better to completely remove them.
rekindledflame
Posted on 26 February 16 at 22:52
Xeinok said:Remove them if the game entirely removes them - if they are broken nullify their point value and mark them as broken but still let them show up as "earned but broken" by that user.Agreed with this.
mcnichoj
28,904
mcnichoj
Posted on 28 February 16 at 22:00
KuWanTum said:As a potential solution, we could shift discontinued achievements and list them as a kind of DLC so that people can still complete a base game.I'd rather they got removed but if they get voted to stay then this is a great idea.
Removed ones should give no TrueScore if they stay.
Alklein92201
Posted on 28 February 16 at 23:38
Anyone who has played Blizzard's newer games that have achievements has likely seen their "Feat of Strength" category. Some of these are time limited, but they also use it for things that are no longer possible due to large changes (things like major patches and story updates removing a boss). They count for no score, don't apply to any stats at all, but are still visible for each individual player. Any they did not unlock are not visible, so you don't see what was missed of these, only explicitly what they've unlocked.

I'd like to see these handled like that for each individual. Removing them completely is wrong, period. People got them, don't ignore that. No "bonus" or anything, just have a page on each gamer's profile where you can see these unlocked achievements, and don't give them any value for stats.

Either count them for stats or don't though. No bonuses, no counting them for some or not others. If they're kept in any capacity, either count them or don't.
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