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How should we handle disabled achievements?

AuthorMessage
KuWanTum
67,512
KuWanTum
Registered on 19 October 2015 (Year 0 - TrueSteamAchievements Beta Tester)TrueSteamAchievement Site Rank: 598 out of 10,14983 posts
Last post: 11 Nov at 15:18
Posted on 23 February 16 at 02:15
alphabet said:Nomstuff said:They should be removed entirely, if it's not in the game, it's not on the site.This.
There's no reason to keep them here if they aren't even on Steam.
Should games no longer on sale be removed as well?

It makes no sense to ditch things just because people can no longer get them.
Nomstuff
37,157
Nomstuff
113 completed games(Includes owned DLC)1,502 posts
Last post: 20 Nov at 17:16
Posted on 23 February 16 at 02:44
KuWanTum said:alphabet said:Nomstuff said:They should be removed entirely, if it's not in the game, it's not on the site.This.
There's no reason to keep them here if they aren't even on Steam.
Should games no longer on sale be removed as well?

It makes no sense to ditch things just because people can no longer get them.
Delisted games are not the same as deleted achievements.

You can still acquire delisted games, as far as I know, every delisted game bar one or two are still purchasable somewhere, the game is still playable, the achievements still function or exist.

Even in the handful of cases where the achievements are now all discontinued, and the game gone forever, they still exist on your steam account.

The deleted achievements do not.
alphabet
284,393
alphabet
284,393 TrueSteamAchievement Points126 posts
Last post: 22 Jul at 14:48
Posted on 23 February 16 at 05:13
KuWanTum said:alphabet said:Nomstuff said:They should be removed entirely, if it's not in the game, it's not on the site.This.
There's no reason to keep them here if they aren't even on Steam.
Should games no longer on sale be removed as well?

It makes no sense to ditch things just because people can no longer get them.
No, because their achievements still exist on Steam's servers. People who bought the game previously still have access to the game, and therefore the achievements. Deleted achievements simply do not exist anymore. I'd like to think this site should reflect what's currently available on Steam's servers. Whether people have achieved them previously or whether they never worked in the first place is irrelevant.

In your scenario (games removed from sale), those achievements can be flagged as discontinued and be worth zero points on the leaderboard (but still add to the achievement count) - creating an even playing field for new and old users. But this is a separate issue.

There's no reason why the achievement count on the Steam profile should be different to the count here (barring the weird cases on Steam's side with free weekends and whatnot).
KuWanTum
67,512
KuWanTum
Registered on 19 October 2015 (Year 0 - TrueSteamAchievements Beta Tester)TrueSteamAchievement Site Rank: 598 out of 10,14983 posts
Last post: 11 Nov at 15:18
Posted on 23 February 16 at 06:12
alphabet said:KuWanTum said:alphabet said:Nomstuff said:They should be removed entirely, if it's not in the game, it's not on the site.This.
There's no reason to keep them here if they aren't even on Steam.
Should games no longer on sale be removed as well?

It makes no sense to ditch things just because people can no longer get them.
No, because their achievements still exist on Steam's servers. People who bought the game previously still have access to the game, and therefore the achievements. Deleted achievements simply do not exist anymore. I'd like to think this site should reflect what's currently available on Steam's servers. Whether people have achieved them previously or whether they never worked in the first place is irrelevant.

In your scenario (games removed from sale), those achievements can be flagged as discontinued and be worth zero points on the leaderboard (but still add to the achievement count) - creating an even playing field for new and old users. But this is a separate issue.

There's no reason why the achievement count on the Steam profile should be different to the count here (barring the weird cases on Steam's side with free weekends and whatnot).
Oh, maybe I misunderstood the topic - I thought it meant about achievements which are not obtaining now because of Gamespy etc.

This is for when a developer actually deletes the achievements completely?
RedDwarf
15,520
RedDwarf
Achievement Completion Percentage: 51.97% (Includes owned DLC) - 1 more achievement required to reach 52%5 posts
Last post: 23 Feb at 10:38
Posted on 23 February 16 at 10:38
KuWanTum said:we could shift discontinued achievements and list them as a kind of DLC so that people can still complete a base game.I like this idea a lot.
Nomstuff
37,157
Nomstuff
113 completed games(Includes owned DLC)1,502 posts
Last post: 20 Nov at 17:16
Posted on 23 February 16 at 13:16
KuWanTum said:
*** Spoiler - click to reveal ***


This is for when a developer actually deletes the achievements completely?
yes.
Kapi96
22,710
Kapi96
22,710 TrueSteamAchievement Points2 posts
Last post: 23 Feb at 14:28
Posted on 23 February 16 at 14:28
If they don't show up on Steam I don't think they should here. The information viewable here should essentially be the same as if it were viewed on Steam, albeit much better formatted of course.
Moon
39,462
Moon
TrueSteamAchievements ModeratorTrueSteamAchievement Site Rank: 1,503 out of 10,149113 posts
Last post: 13 Aug at 21:28
Posted on 23 February 16 at 15:02
To my mind it's whichever doesn't penalise the player...

If you keep them in, it penalises all the new achievers who will now never be able to get a 100% (one of the things I do strive for so that would bug me like mad)

However...if I had legitimately won the achievement I would be irritated if it was taken away. However with the number of achievements that people can accumulate easily a few going missing probably wouldn't be missed, so I would lean towards removing them.

IF POSSIBLE...it would be great to have an 'archive' section, so maybe they don't count towards a points total but players can at least show that they have it, sort of the best of both worlds.

Just my tuppence worth.
Shinnizle
94,526
Shinnizle
TrueSteamAchievement Ratio: 1.8387192 completed games(Includes owned DLC)95 posts
Last post: 27 Nov at 22:48
Posted on 23 February 16 at 15:56
To me, it should reflect whatever is on Steam. Working or not. If the achievement is on Steam, it should be on here. If it is removed from there, it's removed from here as well.
Broke is a state of wallet. Poverty is a state of mind.
IrethTassartir
36,572 TrueSteamAchievement Points9 posts
Last post: 09 Sep at 14:53
Posted on 23 February 16 at 21:18
if they were unobtainable they shouldn't appear in list. but if someone has them, they should stay at those profiles. but not on other profiles. if than can be done at all.
ShinUkyo
4,993
ShinUkyo
TrueSteamAchievement Ratio: 2.0892Registered on 08 November 2015 (Year 0 - TrueSteamAchievements Beta Tester)3 posts
Last post: 28 Feb at 07:00
Posted on 25 February 16 at 07:55
It would be nice if they (deleted achievements) could be sorted like "challenges" are on Xbox One. Where you can view them within a game's pages, but they don't count towards your achievements/completion/etc. There is no question they should not affect the completion of a game when they have, for all intents, been ret-conned.
Hahaman
32,991
Hahaman
22 completed games(Includes owned DLC)Registered on 03 November 2015 (Year 0 - TrueSteamAchievements Beta Tester)15 posts
Last post: 22 Jul at 17:08
Posted on 25 February 16 at 11:52
nope the achs should be kept... it will be unfair to those who already unlocked them
Veilor
31,046
Veilor
TrueSteamAchievements Game Info Manager83 comments640 posts
Last post: 27 Nov at 16:19
Posted on 25 February 16 at 14:15, Edited on 25 February 16 at 14:17 by Veilor
ShinUkyo said:It would be nice if they (deleted achievements) could be sorted like "challenges" are on Xbox One. Where you can view them within a game's pages, but they don't count towards your achievements/completion/etc. There is no question they should not affect the completion of a game when they have, for all intents, been ret-conned.I like this idea, if we are to treat EVERY deleted achievement(even ones people could obtain for a while) in the future with what is voted today this in my opinion would atleast show that they some time unlocked them before deletion.
Shinnizle
94,526
Shinnizle
TrueSteamAchievement Ratio: 1.8387192 completed games(Includes owned DLC)95 posts
Last post: 27 Nov at 22:48
Posted on 25 February 16 at 16:32, Edited on 25 February 16 at 16:32 by Shinnizle
Hahaman said:nope the achs should be kept... it will be unfair to those who already unlocked themBut they aren't kept on Steam, so you essentially lose them on Steam... why should it be any different on here?
Broke is a state of wallet. Poverty is a state of mind.
Inaithnir
8,441
Inaithnir
8,441 TrueSteamAchievement Points1 post
Last post: 25 Feb at 17:25
Posted on 25 February 16 at 17:25
I'm in the camp of putting them in their own 'DLC' section (call it removed, whatever), let them be worth 0 points and just there for showcase.
Reborn
29,661
Reborn
TrueSteamAchievements ModeratorTrueSteamAchievements Newshound1,274 posts
Last post: 07 Dec at 23:26
Posted on 25 February 16 at 19:21
ShinUkyo said:It would be nice if they (deleted achievements) could be sorted like "challenges" are on Xbox One. Where you can view them within a game's pages, but they don't count towards your achievements/completion/etc. There is no question they should not affect the completion of a game when they have, for all intents, been ret-conned.I actually agree with this. They wouldn't have any numerical value or count towards anything, but could still be displayed as a rare sort of "discontinued" item. A piece of history, cosmetic achievement, whatever you would want to call it.
Moderator here on TSA | Walkthrough Supervisor and Site Help Editor on TA
SwAlL
141,394
SwAlL
141,394 TrueSteamAchievement Points1 post
Last post: 26 Feb at 20:58
Posted on 26 February 16 at 20:58
I would vote for

" The achievements were removed for a reason, but if it was after people earned them they shouldn't be removed "

But: for example in the game Age of Empires 2 HD Edition, I've unlocked 26 removed achievements and the site seems unable to track those for me.

Since (probably) not always the site will be able to track removed achievements, maybe is better to completely remove them.
rekindledflame
41,112 TrueSteamAchievement Points3 posts
Last post: 31 Mar at 02:21
Posted on 26 February 16 at 22:52
Xeinok said:Remove them if the game entirely removes them - if they are broken nullify their point value and mark them as broken but still let them show up as "earned but broken" by that user.Agreed with this.
mcnichoj
28,242
mcnichoj
28,242 TrueSteamAchievement Points51 posts
Last post: 07 Dec at 02:33
Posted on 28 February 16 at 22:00
KuWanTum said:As a potential solution, we could shift discontinued achievements and list them as a kind of DLC so that people can still complete a base game.I'd rather they got removed but if they get voted to stay then this is a great idea.
Removed ones should give no TrueScore if they stay.
Alklein92201
TrueSteamAchievement Ratio: 1.4809TrueSteamAchievement Site Rank: 7,048 out of 10,14940 posts
Last post: 28 Aug at 14:21
Posted on 28 February 16 at 23:38
Anyone who has played Blizzard's newer games that have achievements has likely seen their "Feat of Strength" category. Some of these are time limited, but they also use it for things that are no longer possible due to large changes (things like major patches and story updates removing a boss). They count for no score, don't apply to any stats at all, but are still visible for each individual player. Any they did not unlock are not visible, so you don't see what was missed of these, only explicitly what they've unlocked.

I'd like to see these handled like that for each individual. Removing them completely is wrong, period. People got them, don't ignore that. No "bonus" or anything, just have a page on each gamer's profile where you can see these unlocked achievements, and don't give them any value for stats.

Either count them for stats or don't though. No bonuses, no counting them for some or not others. If they're kept in any capacity, either count them or don't.
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