Investigations Questions Forum

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Is this cheating?

AuthorMessage
KuWanTum
67,348
KuWanTum
Registered on 19 October 2015 (Year 0 - TrueSteamAchievements Beta Tester)TrueSteamAchievement Site Rank: 591 out of 10,05283 posts
Last post: 11 Nov at 15:18
Posted on 16 December 15 at 11:36, Edited on 16 December 15 at 11:46 by KuWanTum
Saw this achievement guide and (because I need the achievement myself) want to know if this is counted as cheating.

It seems like changing things outside of the game, so please let me know!

The Stanley ParableUnachievableThe Unachievable achievement in The Stanley Parable worth 21 pointsIt is impossible to get this achievement.
TiCyrillou
96,840
TiCyrillou
TrueSteamAchievement Ratio: 2.0697Achievement Completion Percentage: 73.18% (Includes owned DLC) - 53 more achievements required to reach 74%237 posts
Last post: 28 Nov at 21:56
Posted on 16 December 15 at 12:22
Hi buddy, I'll explain my point of view on this thread too! smile

You're just editing config files, it has nothing to do with game code.
You can modify config file by editing them in any notepad app (it's why .cfg file can be opened in Notepads), without any risk of trouble!!
Obviously, game code files can't be edited in Notepad, try to open them and see the result!
Game code files CAN'T be manually edited by users!

It's just the configuration file, it's the same as changing graphical/gameplay settings through a User_options.cfg file for any game out there. There is no issue to it :)

One other example is CSGO, Pro players used to oftenly modify theirs config files manually! And they aren't cheating and won hundreds thousands of $ at major tournaments!
And some of the configs edited by pro players aren't available in options menu in game!

I hope I managed to reassure you that there's no need to worry about that! It's can't be cheating!
----- TiCyrillou

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Posted on 22 December 15 at 13:24, Edited on 22 December 15 at 13:32 by
This sounds really sketchy, altering config files seems like cheating.

On this site: Cheat Policy
The Investigations Team uses the following guidelines: Examples of cheating (but not limited to these):

- Using profile editors or other software to unlock achievements without playing
- Gamesaving, which is the practice of using a save from a different gamer
- Knowingly using a hacked lobby to unlock achievements
- Editing or manipulating game / save files
- Using any software or patches not released by the game developer
You are manipulating game files, so according to the cheater policy of this site it would be considered cheating.

I would love to see a reaction on this thread from the IM though, seeing as this already affects dozens of site users who 'obtained' the achievement.
STAR WARS!
Posted on 22 December 15 at 15:18
I'm still looking into this specific case, but my initial opinion is that this is indeed against the rules (and I have requested that the "solution" be removed). Editing game files to award an achievement with no in-game input is an abuse of the system.

There were several known ways to obtain this legitimately, and the steam forums paint a relatively clear picture of which users may have done that based on unlock dates but, ultimately, everyone will be looked into within due course.
Ackis
29,181
Ackis
29,181 TrueSteamAchievement Points4 posts
Last post: 26 Dec 15 at 17:53
Posted on 25 December 15 at 06:48
said:I'm still looking into this specific case, but my initial opinion is that this is indeed against the rules (and I have requested that the "solution" be removed). Editing game files to award an achievement with no in-game input is an abuse of the system.

There were several known ways to obtain this legitimately, and the steam forums paint a relatively clear picture of which users may have done that based on unlock dates but, ultimately, everyone will be looked into within due course.
The whole concept of cheating needs to be rethought for Steam.

Editing game files - encouraged and common place - look at the Steam Workshop for example. Changing configs and whatnot - again, common place. By definition if I edit a config file manually to unlock something or give me a different resolution or support a specific monitor this site considers it as cheating.

There's so much more that's acceptable in the PC Master Race world that console peasants just don't understand.

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Posted on 25 December 15 at 09:48, Edited on 25 December 15 at 09:50 by
Ackis said:Editing game files - encouraged and common place - look at the Steam Workshop for example. Changing configs and whatnot - again, common place. By definition if I edit a config file manually to unlock something or give me a different resolution or support a specific monitor this site considers it as cheating.Editing a config file for a better resolution or monitor is fine. Editing so you unlock something that you haven't earned is cheating. Doesn't matter if "everybody does it". If everybody thinks smoking is fine, that doesn't mean you have to join, does it?

Ackis said:There's so much more that's acceptable in the PC Master Race world that console peasants just don't understand.Dude, seriously, who talks like that?
STAR WARS!
Ackis
29,181
Ackis
29,181 TrueSteamAchievement Points4 posts
Last post: 26 Dec 15 at 17:53
Posted on 25 December 15 at 20:31
Billy_Horrible said:Editing a config file for a better resolution or monitor is fine. Editing so you unlock something that you haven't earned is cheating. Doesn't matter if "everybody does it". If everybody thinks smoking is fine, that doesn't mean you have to join, does it?The point is that the site takes a hard stance. You can't use third party programs, edit files, etc... what does that mean for a console? Pretty straight forward as it's a closed ecosystem. With a PC you don't have a closed system. Having an anti-virus running technically violates the rules of the site. If you run AV you are cheating. If I run the software for my keyboard/mouse, I am considered cheating. I have my drivers for my video card installed - third party software that modifies the operating system. Guess what? That's cheating too.

You say editing the config file for a resolution change is okay - what if I edit the file to give me a performance boost? To unlock a new mode in the game? To change the levels of the game? To unlock cheats for the game?

Your argument that because everyone does it, it doesn't make it right is just absurd.

All of this is just considering a single operating system.

On top of it all, how are you going to enforce this?

Billy_Horrible said:Dude, seriously, who talks like that?Many people - it's quite a common term.
https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace

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Posted on 25 December 15 at 22:04, Edited on 25 December 15 at 22:04 by
It's really not that hard. You're acting out while you know perfectly well what is and is not cheating. Resolution upgrade? Not cheating. Performance boost? Cheating. Editing config file to get god mode? Cheating. Using in-game cheat menu to get god mode? Not cheating.

Ackis said:Billy_Horrible said:Dude, seriously, who talks like that?Many people - it's quite a common term.
https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace
... So people on reddit talk like that, so you should to? You do know that the site you're on right now has been copied from two other sires devoted to console gaming, right? Calling PC gamers a "master race" is moronic even if we ignore the creepy nazi echo undertones, and frankly outright wrong in this day and age. What makes you so entitled?
STAR WARS!
Ackis
29,181
Ackis
29,181 TrueSteamAchievement Points4 posts
Last post: 26 Dec 15 at 17:53
Posted on 25 December 15 at 23:31
So you're proposing that they keep a list of a 1000 different things that you can and can't do?

You're trying to imply that there's a black and white line - there isn't. Performance boost is cheating? Don't think so - I want to play a game with no FPS limit, so why would that be cheating?

Heard of a game called DOTA? Started out as a mod for Warcraft 3.

Why come here for guides opposed to using what's already integrated into Steam:
https://steamcommunity.com/app/221910/guides/?browsefilter=t...[]=Achievements&requiredtags[]=english#scrollTop=0

Modding and tinkering are staples of PC gaming.
You're obviously not a PC Gamer, why do you even care?

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Posted on 26 December 15 at 04:37
Why would it matter if I'm "obviously not a PC Gamer"? You keep using the term as if it's some grand prize you get for being better than others, it's silly.

Of course I care. I use Steam, I'm on this site. If someone who cheats their way into completions is on this site as well, yhat makes the achievements I legitemately obtain worth less, both literally and figuratively.

There is a black and white line. Anything you do out of the game that causes you to get achievements you haven't really earned is cheating, it's that simple. There are but a rare few grey areas, like going offline and changing dates for date specific achievements (which is cheating, but sites staff decided to tolerate it).

You keep adding arguments to the likes of "others do it, why shouldn't we". Simple: we shouldn't because it's cheating. Even if I found a way to 100% a game by cheating and I knew for sure the IM would never find out, I wouldn't do it because that makes my achievements meaningless. I don't care if others have a defective moral compass.

Ever since the first True site, the general opinion was clear: cheaters make these sites meaningless. That's why we have this whole system in place with Investigation Managers, outlines about what we do and do not consider cheating, and blocked tracking for known cheaters. It's true that with TrueSteam there's more of a chance of cheaters because it's on PC, that doesn't mean the site has to roll over and give up.
STAR WARS!
Ackis
29,181
Ackis
29,181 TrueSteamAchievement Points4 posts
Last post: 26 Dec 15 at 17:53
Posted on 26 December 15 at 17:53
Billy_Horrible said:Why would it matter if I'm "obviously not a PC Gamer"? You keep using the term as if it's some grand prize you get for being better than others, it's silly. Yes it is a prize. But it also implies that you don't have the mindset/history/experience with how PC gaming works. This becomes more apparent as you continue to post.

Billy_Horrible said:There is a black and white line. Anything you do out of the game that causes you to get achievements you haven't really earned is cheating, it's that simple. There are but a rare few grey areas, like going offline and changing dates for date specific achievements (which is cheating, but sites staff decided to tolerate it).
Wait - so you're saying that it's crystal clear what's cheating and not cheating. Then you go on to say that there are grey areas - you contradict yourself.

Billy_Horrible said:You keep adding arguments to the likes of "others do it, why shouldn't we". Simple: we shouldn't because it's cheating. Even if I found a way to 100% a game by cheating and I knew for sure the IM would never find out, I wouldn't do it because that makes my achievements meaningless. I don't care if others have a defective moral compass.It has nothing to do with a moral compass. Get off your high horse.

Cheating for consoles was largely defined by what is acceptable in the ToS from Microsoft/Sony. Did you know that boosting sessions are against the ToS for some of the games on the consoles?

Billy_Horrible said:Ever since the first True site, the general opinion was clear: cheaters make these sites meaningless. That's why we have this whole system in place with Investigation Managers, outlines about what we do and do not consider cheating, and blocked tracking for known cheaters. It's true that with TrueSteam there's more of a chance of cheaters because it's on PC, that doesn't mean the site has to roll over and give up.Not once have I said to roll over and give up. The very first line I said was:

The whole concept of cheating needs to be rethought for Steam.The first example I gave was the Steam Workshop. A game developer supported way to modify your game files. If the game developer says it's okay, is it still correct to say it's cheating? From your perspective I think you would say yes.

Another one of your big arguments is along the lines that because everyone does it, it still doesn't mean it's right. You're missing one of the key elements - everyone does it because it is supported by the developers of the game. Again I refer you to the Steam workshop. Or look at World of Tanks and how they support mods - or World of Warcraft/Rift/etc and how they support addons.

Another one of your arguments has been that it's okay to edit your config files to change resolution, but to give you a performance boost it's not okay. Right now according to the rules if I manually edit a config file for any reason it's considered cheating.

Billy_Horrible said:Ever since the first True site, the general opinion was clear: cheaters make these sites meaninglessThese sites take a meaningless number and give you another meaningless number. :D We do achievements because we like to.

I don't think we're disagreeing to be honest. But the rules that define cheating on the console need to be reevaluated for PC games. A simple example:

Console:

- Editing or manipulating game / save files
- Using any software or patches not released by the game developer

Revised Steam:
- Editing binary game / save files
- Using external programs that interact with the game explicitly to "cheat"
- Modifying game files or the game experience in a way not supported by the developer of the game.

That's just three new rules that I pulled out of my ass while I wait for my bacon to get cooked. But can you at least see what I mean now?
shockedfrog
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shockedfrog
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Last post: 06 Jan at 07:17
Posted on 04 January 16 at 12:15
In this particular case, I think it would be inappropriate to punish anyone for cheating that achievement. Even though the developer has since said that it's not the correct way to earn the achievement, given the nature of the game in question - one that's meant to be about messing with the player's mind, and making them think outside the box - then, without knowing the developer's intent, it's reasonable that a player could expect this to be a correct way of earning this achievement. Also, many players would have done this prior to the developer saying anything on the subject.

Another game, Eversion, is an interesting case - it has an achievement called "What Have You Done?", which requires the player to edit the game's files. While the text for the achievement states this is the way to unlock it, that in itself doesn't strictly mean the developer actually supports you doing it.
TiCyrillou
96,840
TiCyrillou
TrueSteamAchievement Ratio: 2.0697Achievement Completion Percentage: 73.18% (Includes owned DLC) - 53 more achievements required to reach 74%237 posts
Last post: 28 Nov at 21:56
Posted on 06 January 16 at 09:44
I may be wrong, but is this trick working for the Unachievable Stanley Parable achievement?
-> Enter the bind in Console rather than in Config file?

In most of the Source games, enter binds via Console works... I didn't tried it. May someone try?

Even if I'm pretty sure that just editing a config file can't be considered as cheating (because originally in code developpement, Config files in Any Software/Game are made to be interpreted and edited by users in order to CONFIGURATE the Software/Game as they want it to work!).
It's drastically different than editing game files (generally encrypted btw).

If this trick could work, it will definetely close the question about this achievement in particular!
(As "Taking advantage of an in-game console" is already in while-list in Cheat Policy).
----- TiCyrillou
mcnichoj
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mcnichoj
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Last post: 01 Jun at 16:31
Posted on 17 January 16 at 02:22
The only two things that should be not allowed are using save files that auto unlocks multiple achievements and auto unlock programs lie SAM.

Console should be allowed as it's allowed by Microsoft for Fallout 3 PC on Xbox Live.
Third party programs that assist you should be allowed as solvers for Wordament are suggested on multiple Xbox sites even though you can actually put you at risk for being banned from the game.
Hotfixes should be allowed as per what this thread was initially about because it's super simple and it's on par with people playing Xbox games unpatched or switching their system clock and playing offline. Really no one is editing their files to unlock every single achievement without playing the game at all.
PrettzL
65,682
PrettzL
TrueSteamAchievements Game Info Editor112 solutions63 posts
Last post: 29 Sep at 20:13
Posted on 27 January 16 at 04:49, Edited on 27 January 16 at 04:51 by PrettzL
shockedfrog said:Another game, Eversion, is an interesting case - it has an achievement called "What Have You Done?", which requires the player to edit the game's files. While the text for the achievement states this is the way to unlock it, that in itself doesn't strictly mean the developer actually supports you doing it.Considering this achievement can be earned as easily as changing any supporting file/folder in any way (including changing case tense in folder names and modifying file extensions) and not just editing game code for the game (so long as the executable isn't messed with) it will unlock "What Have You Done?".

Should this achievement being earned count as a ban though? You're only going to earn it by breaking the rules. (I unlocked it myself, though I am confident that it will be considered completely unreasonable to ban a profile for earning this achievement legitimately.)

TiCyrillou said:I may be wrong, but is this trick working for the Unachievable Stanley Parable achievement?
-> Enter the bind in Console rather than in Config file?
That was how I earned this achievement back when I unlocked it. Didn't need to edit any game directory files in any way, just copied and pasted some text from a pastebin in to the console.
MysticalShadow86
Achievement Completion Percentage: 28.82% (Includes owned DLC) - 13 more achievements required to reach 29%129 posts
Last post: 13 Oct at 13:53
Posted on 28 January 16 at 20:47
PrettzL said:That was how I earned this achievement back when I unlocked it. Didn't need to edit any game directory files in any way, just copied and pasted some text from a pastebin in to the console.What text was it? The same thing we have to add to the binding in the game config files? As if its what i'm thinking it is then I couldn't get it to work when I tried it.
PrettzL
65,682
PrettzL
TrueSteamAchievements Game Info Editor112 solutions63 posts
Last post: 29 Sep at 20:13
Posted on 28 January 16 at 21:20, Edited on 28 January 16 at 21:22 by PrettzL
It's been a while, but it was something like paste "bind “any key” "some stuff"" in to the console and then press your 'any key'.

Worked flawlessly at the time, from what I've read the method for unlocking it has been patched over and repatched like 5 times since I unlocked it.

The game's creator has purposefully made that achievement difficult to unlock for whatever reason.
TiCyrillou
96,840
TiCyrillou
TrueSteamAchievement Ratio: 2.0697Achievement Completion Percentage: 73.18% (Includes owned DLC) - 53 more achievements required to reach 74%237 posts
Last post: 28 Nov at 21:56
Posted on 29 January 16 at 15:12, Edited on 29 January 16 at 15:12 by TiCyrillou
PrettzL said:TiCyrillou said:I may be wrong, but is this trick working for the Unachievable Stanley Parable achievement?
-> Enter the bind in Console rather than in Config file?
That was how I earned this achievement back when I unlocked it. Didn't need to edit any game directory files in any way, just copied and pasted some text from a pastebin in to the console.
PrettzL said:It's been a while, but it was something like paste "bind “any key” "some stuff"" in to the console and then press your 'any key'.Ok, thank you for your contribution. I guess it's all I had to know about this. It now can't be consider as cheating. smile

Cheater Policy said:Examples that are not considered cheating (but not limited to these):
(...)
Using a turbo controller to automate grinding
Taking advantage of an in-game console (Fallout 3 PC)
Taking advantage of an in-game cheat code (most LEGO games)
(...)
----- TiCyrillou
PrettzL
65,682
PrettzL
TrueSteamAchievements Game Info Editor112 solutions63 posts
Last post: 29 Sep at 20:13
Posted on 29 January 16 at 16:28, Edited on 29 January 16 at 16:29 by PrettzL
@TiCyrillou I can't really speak for everyone since I unlocked this achievement before a lot of major reworks were done to it.

The games creator seems to have a real bone to pick with achievement hunters and like putting walls between them and achievements....

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if on October 16, 2018 he patches the achievement for The Stanley Parable to "not play the game for 5 years" extending it to "not play for 25 years" or something.
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