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Less points for the games with a lot of achievements

  • GearGear142,453
    Posted on 13 January 17 at 16:09, Edited on 13 January 17 at 16:13 by Gear
    Less points for the trash easy games with a lot of achievements, such as Zup 1/2/3, Super Duper Flying Genocide 2017, Slash It, Pain Train etc.

    sorry for google translate
  • NomstuffNomstuff67,684
    Posted on 13 January 17 at 16:45
    I'm not sure there's a fair way to do that.
  • GearGear142,453
    Posted on 13 January 17 at 20:19
    Zup 3: 1 hour - 18390
    Skyrim: 200+ hours - 1322
    I think it's not a very fair
  • NomstuffNomstuff67,684
  • GearGear142,453
    Posted on 13 January 17 at 22:21
    Nomstuff said:
    12 points
    ?1708facepalm
  • NomstuffNomstuff67,684
    Posted on 13 January 17 at 23:25, Edited on 13 January 17 at 23:27 by Nomstuff
    I understand the complaint just fine.

    I'm saying that Ratio and individual achievement points are generally worth more.

    Games in the opposite direction have this problem too.

    Dustforce Achievements - 10
    Tales of MajEyal Achievements - 89,000
  • daysocksdaysocks197,392
    Posted on 14 January 17 at 01:39
    How would you propose such a system be fair? Currently each individual achievement gets a score based on how many people do/do not have it, which is a fair system.

    That certain games have an unusual amount of easy achievements is beside the point.
  • GearGear142,453
    Posted on 14 January 17 at 08:04, Edited on 14 January 17 at 08:32 by Gear
    Maybe adjust the final score based on the average completion time?

    Now is calculated as 10 * TSA ratio
    base value for achievement is 10

    I suggest a correction:
    if total achievements count >100 and completion time <10 hours then base value = 1
    if total achievements count >1000 and completion time <10 hours then base value = 0.1
    and base value * average completion time for one achievement games
  • Posted on 16 January 17 at 21:00
    How about an alternate standardized score where every game has a base value (or max value?) of 1000?
  • TombRaiserTombRaiser38,345
    Posted on 17 January 17 at 06:39
    A game like Zup! 3 with 1708 achievements, how would that work? Would 708 of those achievements have a score of zero, while the remaining 1000 have a score of 1 each?
  • Posted on 17 January 17 at 20:29
    In that case, you'd have two choices:

    a. Make it so each achievement for Zup! 3 is worth a base score of around 0.5855, meaning that the base score for the whole game is still around 1000. Of course, having this as a base would appear somewhat odd, but if it was an alternate standardised score like TA and TT, you'd never see it.

    b. Make it so each achievement has a base of at least 1. This would mean Zup! 3 would still be an exception to the usual rules, being worth a base of 1708 instead of 1000, but at least the would be a tad more reasonable.
  • Posted on 28 May 17 at 05:11
    Gear said:
    Maybe adjust the final score based on the average completion time?

    Now is calculated as 10 * TSA ratio
    base value for achievement is 10

    I suggest a correction:
    if total achievements count >100 and completion time <10 hours then base value = 1
    if total achievements count >1000 and completion time <10 hours then base value = 0.1
    and base value * average completion time for one achievement games
    What your suggesting wouldn't work across the board. What happens when people leave games running while AFK? That would skew the numbers right? So we would then have people complaining that its not worth enough. They do it that way because its really the only fair way to calculate these things without having to account for numerous factors from varying individuals. For those that would like a bit more backstory into how it works: An Introduction To The TrueSteam Scoring System
    "Our virtues and our failings are inseparable, like force and matter. When they separate, man is no more." -Nikola Tesla
  • PurePure433,008
    Posted on 28 May 17 at 16:38
    Gear said:
    Maybe adjust the final score based on the average completion time?

    Now is calculated as 10 * TSA ratio
    base value for achievement is 10

    I suggest a correction:
    if total achievements count >100 and completion time 1000 and completion time <10 hours then base value = 0.1
    and base value * average completion time for one achievement games
    AStats does this and it doesn't fix the problem so this would be a colossal waste of time. The easy games still outscore the harder games. If it bothers you, focus on your ratio and not your score.
  • Posted on 23 June 17 at 12:14
    With many games coming out recently with well over 1,000 achievements, it might be time to take another look at this.
  • UzzbuzzUzzbuzz364,419
    Posted on 27 June 17 at 00:09, Edited on 27 June 17 at 00:11 by Uzzbuzz
    I like the idea of a standardized score of 1000. Getting tens of thousands of points in a few hours devalues the TSA score, and something should change in that regard. It's a tough concept to balance, but seeing how at least half of the top score games on the site have over 30% completion...

    One way I can see this possibly working is that a game has a base score of 1000, and an overall ratio (which is the average ratio across achievements in the game), say for example 2.5. This game has 50 achievements to fit into a total TSA score of 2500, where some achievements could be worth 0 score depending. Then from most earned to least earned the scores get distributed in a way that total 2500. Or perhaps I'm over complicating it, but you get the point.

    As I typed the last paragraph it does occur to me that a good solution will be very difficult to implement, as I'm already doubting what I said and seeing where it could go wrong.
  • NomstuffNomstuff67,684
    Posted on 27 June 17 at 01:23
    Cap spam games at 1k. That'll kill their score.
  • Posted on 27 June 17 at 08:11
    We are planning on implementing a new system for these games, would love to have more suggestions
  • AtarunAtarun425,251
    Posted on 27 June 17 at 11:16
    I really do not think capping the games will solve the problem: you'll just incite those games' devs to split their games into many pieces (you'd have 1000 Zup instead of just 6)... And it would induce another problem: very long games that actually take a lot of time to complete would be worthless, since they'd be capped, so people worrying about their TSA score would only stick to very short games to make up for the capped value...

    My suggestion is: make a new score, one that adjusts the current TSA score of a game based on its ratio, so that games that are harder to complete will be worth a lot more.

    Or maybe tweak the formula so that achievements that are hard to obtain are worth a lot more points. If the hardest achievements ranked in the tens of thousands of points instead of dozens, it might help the players who avoid the trash games get a bigger score by focusing on hard trophies... though it won't prevent people from inflating their score with trash.
  • rayculzrayculz273,708
    Posted on 27 June 17 at 18:30, Edited on 27 June 17 at 18:41 by rayculz
    Please ... get rid point of spamming achievement games. I like to hunt achievements, but these achievement spam games made me puke like these games :

    Zen vs Zombie
    http://store.steampowered.com/app/628490

    Sisters In Hotel
    http://store.steampowered.com/app/625400

    The First Spark
    http://store.steampowered.com/app/488200

    Drive By Hero
    http://store.steampowered.com/app/640310

    Adventure Rage
    http://store.steampowered.com/app/646450

    Running Through Russia
    http://store.steampowered.com/app/604490

    Blood Feed
    http://store.steampowered.com/app/575950

    The Quest for Achievements
    http://store.steampowered.com/app/602940

    Zup series, Goocubelets series ... etc

    IMHO, it is really pathetic for hunters to cure their hunger for achievement by play this spam achievement games.
  • PurePure433,008
    Posted on 28 June 17 at 19:18
    rayculz said:
    SNIP
    I find it odd you've played these then complain about it.
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